You know who you are. As much as 50% of working age and retired U.S. citizens are moochers, in addition to untold millions of illegal aliens. Since you know who you are, I am talking to you, dead beats.
Yes you, who expect for some unknown other person to pay for your health care when you casually walk into the emergency room with a runny nose, and suck up the system's time and energy, and then walk out without paying a dime. Or worse yet, when you carry no medical insurance, and develop an existing condition, then expect someone else to treat you? The latest horrible law that has come down the pike (Obama Care) mandates that insurance companies issue you a policy despite your existing condition. This is not insurance, it's welfare, and you are the recipient. Or, in other words, free loading off of the rest of us.
You, who are here illegally and send your illegal kids to public schools, towards which you have contributed nothing, and suck up other public goodies towards which you gave squat.
And what about you old mooching geezers, who suck up all kinds of medicine and pay precious little for it, if anything, simply because you are old and the government gives you a Medicare card. And you bitch and whine about your lousy, feeble little co-pay when it occurs.
And speaking of mooching old geezers, I am speaking of parasites like you who cash your lucrative, opulent social security check each and every month, and yet you know in your heart of hearts that you never, ever contributed anything close to what you have taken out, and what you expect to take out for the undetermined future. And be honest (if that is even possible), you are not even close in your lifetime contributions to what you are cashing and expect to cash.
What is life like for you, you parasites? Don't you ever wonder where this money comes from to support you in your cozy, comfy lifestyle which you don't pay for? Do you think that the Money Fairy just flies in to Washington and dumps truckloads of cash into the U.S. Treasury? Do you even care where the money comes from? Probably not.
And if you don't care, that makes you one of two things: 1) stupid, or 2) evil. Which do you prefer? It is an amoral being who consciously takes from others without giving back any effort for what they take, and that would be defined as evil. Or if you just don't bother to think that your lifestyle is supported by others, then you are just a garden variety idiot. Which is it, mooch?
And you biggest moochers of all: public employee union retirees (this includes public school teachers, firemen, police, librarians, utility companies, and on and on and on and on...): you gutless parasites retire at age 50 or 55, and live the life of Reilly on the public dime for the rest of your free loading life, while the municipality that you used to work at gets the bill for your pension each month, in addition to having to replace your dead beat body with another younger working mooch to back fill what you should be doing until age 65, if there were justice in the world. Do you really think you earned your pension? Not even close, you slacking dead beats. You are killing our society, and you don't even care.
You know the country would be better off without you.
You know that, don't you?
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28 comments:
Fredd, I usually agree with your posts, and I agree with the illegal parasites that come to our country and mooch off of us.
I do not agree with you about Medicare. The day we turned 65, we got out Medicare cards. We bought our secondary coverage. Since we've been 65, we've had no call us or contact us about any different coverage at all. We have what we have. I don't understand how the congress gets a different coverage than we do.
Our SS isn't a 'bundle' of money each month, either. We don't get enough to pay for the bills that continue to come in, and at a higher rate each month. Food is going up. Gasoline is going up. All services are going up.
The hubs is still working, and will
continue to do so as long as he is able. He is self-employed, so at least he doesn't have anyone telling him he has to retire.
We have been fortunate in our lives that we haven't had any major sickness, at least until this year, and we've been able to save for our retirement.
We don't feel like we are parasites. We've always paid our bills, never had food stamps, and have managed to survive.
I hope you have a blessed and a Very Merry Christmas!
I gotta take issue with casting SS in the entitlement light. It's a prepaid plan for the vast majority of us. I'm not on it but look forward to getting some of my money back someday. I've been contributing since I was 15. Looking at SS at the 10,000 foot level, there is no way more money comes out than what goes in.
Today, and in my view the biggest offenders are those basking in an indefinite period of unemployment benefits, and many of those living in rent free repo houses.
But I have to say I even have mixed feeling about that since we as a group of taxpaying citizens have gone into multi-decade if not century Hock to bail out the very people that are behind the global 'economic crisis'. Probably to the tune of 40-50 trillion by now foreign and domestic.
People are Not getting rewarded for living their lives as responsible citizens. They're getting raped with telephone poles and laughed at instead.
Kid and Linda:
Now we get to whose ox is gored.
Just do the math. How much did you pay into SS, and how much are you cashing in.
Medicare: how much do your meds cost, and how much of that are you personally covering.
My conservative friends are exempting themselves from their personal liabilities.
Even us conservatives are exempting themselves from the math.
Don't.
I agree with most of this, but I would say that those who put their lives on the line, like cops and military should get more than the average person.
What most do not understand about SS is SSDI which is part of the same general fund (if there is one).
If anyone working looks at their little quarterly statement from the SSA you will see that if you were to be injured and could no longer do your job (not any job, the one you were doing) your monthly payout would be more than if you retired at the current age.
Now it does not take a math magician to see that there is no possible way for you to take less than you put in.
Now one might say here; "Well that is not me".
OK, but there are MILLIONS doing just that.
Now keep in mind that the money ALL COMES FROM THE SAME FUND.
This also pertains to to new naturalized citizens (it's true) who never paid one single cent into said fund.
To keep this ponzi scheme alive, we will need at a minimum 280,000 new jobs (working people) per month for the next 15 years at least.
My answer;
If retired in 1990 - full benefits
If disabled in 1990 - benefits equal what retirement would at the time.
All newcomers CUT-OFF!
After the year 1990,,GIVE OUR MONEY BACK, ALL OF IT!
NO MORE CONFISCATION!
All the above pertains to Medicare and Medicaid just add another 280,000 new jobs bringing the total to 560,000 NEW JOBS PER MONTH FOR 15 YEARS STRAIGHT to get your heads around the damn problem Fredd is speaking about!
Trestin, Agree.
Fredd, I don't know how much I've paid in at the moment, but SS works if the money isn't stolen out of it. So, I'm not sure that equation really defines the situation.
Otherwise, Medicare and SS exist purely because most individuals simply do not have the capacity, mental or otherwise, to plan for their retirement needs or medical expenses in late life.
Therefore, if the government does nothing, you end up with either old or sick people clogging the streets begging for money. That is not an environment I want to live in. So, I can accept some form of forced retirement plan. I believe it should be a private plan, with payroll deduction into a selected group of investment options. CD's for example, when times are normal earn 5%, 3% more than the gov can manage. But certainly, there would be a number of no loss options available to people. There are many investors who will take your money, pay you 5 to even 10% on it and use it to invest themselves. And compound interest is a wonderful thing.
If you want to divert more money into riskier investments with greater reward that's up to you.
So, now imagine you save into this retirement fund. It's yours. You can leave it to your family if you die prematurely as many people do.
Do the same for medical care. Buy insurance plans early in life and have the capability to get whatever medical care you need later.
These plans work because there is a fairly large percentage of people who never collect their benefits. Or some for only a short time. When SS was not in the general fund it was spilling over. This is proof the plan works.
Imagine, then LBJ comes along, takes all the SS money that was deposited mostly by white people and creates welfare and gives it to the black people. This is not a racial comment, it is simply fact.
The black people already got their reparations. The ones who wanted to remain slaves anyway.
Fredd, you're right. LBJ is the worst president ever as things currently stand.
Trestin:
I disagree with giving someone 'more than the average person' because their job is dangerous.
Just pay them a market rate (but not pensions at ridiculously young ages), and you will have lots of qualified takers for these jobs, military, police and firemen. Let them take their market based incomes and apportion a percentage of it for their own retirement like the rest of us private sector folks.
Once you let public servants start exempting their own ranks from their retirement planning, the slippery slope starts, lucrative payouts from the public trough begin, and it gets wild and wooly from that point on and we get a mess like we have right now.
Kid:
Social Security doesn't work, whether the congress spends that 'lock box' money or not.
Just a quick and dirty math example, Kid:
Joe Average starts work at 20, pays into the system for 42 years and averages $33,000 annual gross pay over those working years (including unemployed periods, grad school, and hitch hiking as a ne-er do well across Costa Rica at age 25). He puts up 6.75% of this, and his boss matches: he and his boss have contributed $187,110 towards his retirement for the remainder of his life, likely 20 more years. That should only pay him back $9355.50 a year in SS payments. But this guy will qualify for around $24,000 a year, or about $2K a month. Ol' moochin' Joe will have withdrawn his true compensation (without any interest, you know how the gubmint works, Kid) in not quite 8 years. The rest of the time, he is essentially on the dole, a free loader.
Who coughs up that extra $14K and change each year, Kid, that Joe is cashing? WE DO!!! That's my whole point!! Social Security does NOT work. Under any condition.
Multiply Joe Average by about another 100,000,000 soon to retire baby boomers, and we have what Clint Eastwood's character in 'Heart Break Ridge' Gunny Thomas Highway would call a genuine 'cluster f**k.'
Christopher:
Agree: just shitcan any program that involves any local, state or fed government agency taking our money and giving it to free loaders.
It was a nice, utopian dream back in the day, but nothing more. It's time to cut bait, too many free loaders, and too few spines found in congress.
Linda:
Also, you mention that SS doesn't pay all the bills. It was never intended to pay for all of that, just a little something something to tide old folks over, and help their savings make ends meet. And I disagree with even having the government give anyone a little something something, because it always adds up to a big something something in the end.
Now free loaders have figured out a way to live off SS and SS only, and it was never, ever intended to be a retirement program.
Medicare: if someone needs medicine, they should buy it themselves with their own hard earned money. Don't have the government forcibly take MY money and use it to defray someone else's medicine costs.
Maybe I confused the issue by saying SS was working until the commies stole it. I believe it was working fine but we can disagree.
I certainly agree SS was never meant to be a retirement program, just something to keep you off the streets. If that's all you have, you end up in a single wide with 8 mousetraps and you don't eat gourmet.
I was certainly Never meant to be a 20 year vacation plan!
I think we're closer to agreement than it appears.
My main point was that SS $$ should Always be in the hands of the individuals. And I don't have any problem with that personal savings plan forced on the dummies that believe they're gonna win the lottery at age 61.5.
Medicare is a tougher issue. Part of the problem is that medical science has learned how to keep us alive a lot longer but not necessarily in a healthy fashion, and the longer some of us are kept alive the more medical problems develop and the more expensive those half solutions become.
The wife of a guy I work with had cancer spreading all through her body. They worked on her for more than a year. The last 6 months or so, she was on the bag, and couldn't do anything for herself. She required constant care, cleanup etc. That was very expensive and it could have gone on longer, who knows.
If it comes to it, I'm not going to go that route. If the prognosis isn't great, 'm going to let things happen, especially if I have to drain the family saving doing it.
Anyway, with individual retirement plans that include taking SS away from the government, imagine the wealth that could be built up in a family.
I'm all for personal responsibility, but recognize some of it will have to be forced on a great many people who otherwise would get to 62 and half jack squat of a plan or financing.
Ah, Kid.
You an' me buttin' heads, it just ain't right. We both have to agree that SS as it is now, is just garbage.
Let's let it go at that.
SS, as it is now is garbage !
:)
It truly is simply a fix for the coke (money) addicts in DC. Much has to be removed from federal control.
A most excellent and stimulating post, Fredd.
Perhaps you are a little harsh on those who have paid into the system. It's not their fault they were coerced into a ponzi scheme.
Trestin's comment about how police and firefighters should get more is plain evidence of just how far the progressive agenda has progressed.
We think and debate on their terms using their premises.
The federal government confiscates our money "for our own good" and puts it in a big pile that they now claim is community property (in reality, they have stolen it all and must borrow from china).
So we now have these big community funds, and if someone like Fredd comes along and states the truth he is branded a cruel, stingy hate-monger.
The federal government should get completely and totally out of all of these programs. They have shown themselves to be incompetent. If they were a business they would be out of business, bankrupt.
A strong, stable dollar would do more for working folks than all of these gold-plated money wasting frauds cooked up by the feral government.
...One more think now that I've read through the thread again.
Government involvement in markets distorts prices and other market signals.
Does anyone really think the medical industry would dry up and blow away if government were not involved?
It would find a way to deliver its products at a price people could afford.
If everyone paid their own doctor bill out of their own pockets, they would shop around and prices would get in line with what people could afford. Same goes for insurance.
The government has "helped" us by taking all those pesky decisions away from us and doing it all for us, only they've screwed it up even worse and now we're stuck.
Worse, we now have people dependent on the government who would have no idea how to fend for themselves.
It is immoral to take responsibility away from people and make them dependent. That is what our progressive government has done.
That makes me a parasite - no way. Tell me, would you rather have 65 yr old cops chasing 17 year old armed hoodlums through the streets? I was a 45 yr old Lt. doing exactly that. And I was keeping pace with a 32 yr old detective. I retired at 49.
You have 20 to 25 year retirement plans for fire, police and military for one reason - to keep a fairly young presence on the force. Guns are not frequesntly used, but physical force is. There's no way I could out fight a 25 yr old when I retires. Come on Fredd, think this through.
These pension systems were created when people died in their early sixties. The systems were never designed to support someone for possibly (in my case) thirty years. Does that mean I should have stayed off the force?
No, change the systems. Stop the practice of pumping up your pension by working ridiculous overtime for the last four years of your career. Base the pension on the salary alone, no OT.
Make the systems more contributory. Originally these plans were viewed as part of your compensation package. Now they are viewed as on top of your salary. Put it all together again at the table.
But to have someone in their mid to late sixties trying to do this work is absolutely ridiculous.
I did the work for 24 years and I have the broken bones, fucked up joints and traumatic arthrytis to show for it (that's one broken shoulder - drug arrest, one broken wrist - burglary arrest, two busted ribs - street fight arrest, three knee operations - one felony assault arrest twice and I don't remember the other. I can't even count the sprains, strains and bloody knuckles, getting maced by fellow officers during barroom melees or fat lips.
Don't put the military and emergency responders in the same category as bean counters and garbage collectors. I don't say we should get more. 50% of your base salary is the usual amount that veryone gets and that is sufficient. I never expected to get rich as a cop and I didn't. I will be working probably in my other career until my seventies. But to call me a parasite for accepting what the government wanted to pay me is really fucked up.
Sig's got a point. I retired with a military pension, but I had to go get another job. Not complaining at all, just saying that most government pensions are not the gold-plated type we hear of in the news.
I also agree with Sig that tightening up the rules, greater employee contribution and no guaranteed benefit would be a big help.
I still maintain that if the government would protect the dollar working people who save would be a long way towards not having to rely on the government.
People seem to forget that when SS was set up you couldn't collect until after you had exceded the average life expectancy by 3 years and 5 months. People were expected to provide for themselves until then. According to current actuary rates, no one should be able to collect until they are 81 years and 1 month.
It was set up so that EVERYONE paid in but LESS THAN 50% would ever collect because MORE THAN 50% of the people who paid in were suppose to die WITHOUT EVER COLLECTING a thin dime. And those who DID live to collect weren't suppose to collect for very long.
And that, dear people, is the ONLY way SS could ever be sustainable.
I hope you don't mind, Fred, but I have laid it out and explained it in a post I did in September complete with actuary numbers and all. Here is the link:
http://krystalakelly.blogspot.com/2010/09/speedy-gonzales-social-security.html
There are those people who truly NEED the SS income, but I surely wonder how the ones whining the most about their SS checks being to small and their co-pays being too big can afford to continue to have their hair and nails done.
And go to the movies.
And out to eat.
We sure are a spoiled bunch aren't we? The lot of us. We're all spoiled.
BTW, one of our sons qualifies for SSDI. We don't collect and we've never applied.
Sig:
I've just gored your ox.
Sorry. But, like el Rushbo, I live in Realville. My point is that the system that we all have been living by for the last 50 years or so isn't working, it's driving us into chaos and despair and bankruptcy. Public pensions were never guaranteed as national suicide pacts.
We are paying for Sig94's police protection of 30 years ago RIGHT NOW. Today. As I write this. Is that the way it should be? I HAVE THOUGHT THIS THROUGH, SIG. What right did those politicians have back then to indenture US FUTURE TAX PAYERS for stuff that should have been paid for when it was consumed, 30 years ago? And we are still doing this today, as I write this, even though public employee pension plans nationwide are so undfunded that I need not even go into the details. It's chaos now.
Yes, Sig, you signed up for that gig based on the deal offered at the time, it's not your fault. But that deal mortgaged future generations' wealth for past consumption: a bad public deal, and those politicians that concocted that crap have a special and certain place in hell reserved for them.
They signed us all up for a suicide pact, and you, Sig, are holding us to it.
We ordinary folk, private sector Joe's, those of us who don't chase bad guys for a living, who don't dodge Communist bullets on the front lines, you know, the public sector schmoes, produce while we are young, get paid, get promoted, get bigger bucks, get old, get discriminated against when we start making really big bucks, and then get summarily canned on trumped up charges to save the company payroll costs, and end up with no pension at all. Such is life in the private sector, but we plan for this unfairness: we put aside money for a rainy day with 401(k) programs and others like it. At no cost to the taxpayers of the future.
Not so with public pension folks. They don't have to bear any burden of a sour economy, a war, discrimination, ill health or other economic setbacks. Nope, they are exempt from all manner of despair and tears.
Is that the way things should be?
NO. We need to develop another way. Pensions, and particularly public employee pensions, should be eliminated immediately, if not sooner.
Let's all share the joys/burdens of good times and bad.
Public employee union retirees only live in the good times. Never the bad.
Not right. Not right at all.
This is the primary point of my post. I stand by it. Even though I will be vilified, even by some of my conservative friends.
So be it.
Krystal:
Bingo. SS was designed by actuaries back in the day who took into account what age people lived to, and marked the age (average life expectancy in the 1930's: 57) to reflect a positive cash flow for the system, much like insurance companies do today.
Unlike insurance companies today, though, SS never raised the bar for the mortality figures.
Politically difficult, you see. Another reason to shun politicians when you see them reaching out to shake your hand, they are actually aiming for your pocket.
Silver:
You say 'Sig has a point.' I understand Sig's 'point.' But because I understand it doesn't make it valid. Accordingly, you are wrong. Rarely, Silver, but in this instance you are wrong because Sig does not have a point.
And you yourself are cashing government checks each month, in good times and bad, with a COLA almost guaranteed each year regardless of how the economy is doing (called a 'defined benefit'). Us private sector folks are where ALL money comes from to support and back all checks issued by governnment, and we private sector schlubbs live and die, and float up and down with the economy, and are not spared from the down times like public sector employees and retirees are. Are they better people that we are? Deserving more security than we do? Absolutely not. That's not the America I want to live in, where you are protected by government from all manner of tears and despair if you work for the governemnt, but if you are in the private sector you are on your own, good luck with that living or dying thing, Private Sector Joe, just keep that tax money coming in, Joe, don't forget about that whatever you do, Joe.
These defined benefits for public employee retirement programs are killing us. Just killing us as a nation, and I get the 'point' Sig was making: if you take on a dangerous job (like facing enemies with guns, criminals with guns, criminals with brass knuckles, etc on behalf of the public good), you should get paid for the high risk.
I just disagree that we should be funding this risk and the good to society back then, taken 30 years ago, but paying for that long ago gain RIGHT NOW.
Let's pay as we go, pay for what we consume as we consume it, whether its a hamburger or making a Commie or drug dealer die. Firemen should be making $100K annually, but zero pension. Ditto with cops. Soldiers, perhaps $60K a year, knowing that once their prime is over, they get another gig since chasing Muslim terrorists over rocky terrain is not for 43 year olds. Paying a soldier pensioner $25K annually, starting at age 41, for life is not what I would call 'pay go.'
I throw these numbers out arbitrarily, and I know there is room for debating the actual figures, but I use them to make a point of my own, a valid one.
We should not defer our costs of freedom and security onto our children and grand children for the lifestyle we live in the present.
It's immoral, and accordingly, Sig94's 'point,' while I understand it, is invalid.
Your buddy,
Fredd
Sig's point is valid because that is what is in the contract. Governments that make these deals have a fiduciary liability to fulfil the terms of the contract.
I say this even though I have defended your overall thesis in earlier posts in this thread. The progressive die was cast and here we are.
Government may indeed have to break these contracts someday, but we'll cross tha bridge (and probably burn it) when we get there.
Now, as you know Fredd, I'm all about solutions, and here's one off the top of my head based upon my libertarian free-market principles:
Let the free market rule on the price of a job. Dangerous jobs that require special skills would naturally end up paying more.
A responsible person, knowing he could not do such an arduous job forever, would make hay while the sun shines and banks up some money, while positioning himself, through extra training or school, for life after the arduous job is no longer possible.
We agree that defined benefits must be cast over the side and that our current retirement system is a ponzi scheme. The government must implement a 401K type system like the private sector.
In the case of a government job, the government could be authorized to offer more generous matching benefits for the more arduous jobs. This puts the government compensation in the here and now and does not push liabilities out into the distant future.
The federal government must learn to let the free market rule.
Personal question: Will you cash your social security checks?
I'm not being provocative, just curious. I have maintained at my blog that railing against SS while collecting checks is not hypocritical or inconsistent because it is a coerced system and we have no choice whether to contribute or not.
Silver:
Quibbling is great, isn't it? Of course the contract with Sig94 was legal.
Or was it?
You were in the military, Silver, and if a lieutenant gave an order to the sergeant to shoot the civilian, well, an order is an order, the butterbar has the commission, dutiful sarge might as well pull out the .45 and do the guy in, right Silver?
Same thing here. Our government officers are giving orders that they have no moral authority to give. They are committing future generations to mountainous debt that these future folks had nothing to do with generating, and participated in none of the benefits issued decades prior.
Completely immoral. Totally corrupt and immoral, and it is not even arguable.
These numbnut cowardly municipal managers always cave to unions, when the piper need only be paid when they are long gone from the scene. No skin off their noses, right?
There is no way in hell that most municipalities can keep their pension promises. There is no way in hell that the fed can keep its SS promises.
Now what? Sig94 can ignore reality, and just assume the checks will come forever, in perpetuity just because that's the deal that was promised. Then one day, Sig goes out to his mailbox, and shazzam!! Where the hell is that check? That is when the shit hits the fan, and Sig's point is proven invalid.
To answer your question: I have no intention on cashing any SS checks, because there will be no checks issued when it is my time to qualify. I am planning my life on the basis that the greatest Ponzi scheme ever will have crashed and burned prior to my ever seeing a dime.
My FICA contributions are simply added to my tax burden, never to be seen again, as far as I am concerned.
Please don't ask me the hypothetical question that assumes that SS will be around much longer; it won't.
And finally I agree with your free market solution to pricing wages for dangerous jobs, as I had written earlier in a comment in this very thread, which went like this...
"Just pay them a market rate (but not pensions at ridiculously young ages), and you will have lots of qualified takers for these jobs, military, police and firemen. Let them take their market based incomes and apportion a percentage of it for their own retirement like the rest of us private sector folks."
I think any reasonable person, free market libertarian or not, will agree that this is the only way to proceed going forward.
I signed a contract with the government. Until that contract is challenged in a court of law, it is legal and binding. I upheld my part of the contract so I am not a parasite.
If a signatory wants to get out they need to file bankruptcy. I am encouraged that Americans are waking up to this. I am hopeful that pensions will be a relic of the past.
How to unwind it? Chile did it a few years back...
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-ja-jp.html
Silver:
So your argument is the same as Sig94's: hey, they signed the deal.
And when your paycheck fails to arrive on Friday, Fredd wins the argument.
OK, we'll see what happens when Friday comes.
And trust me, Friday will come.
Fredd wins what argument?
You called me a parasite.
par·a·site
n.
1. Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
2.
a. One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return.
b. One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant.
3. A professional dinner guest, especially in ancient Greece.
You lose on all three counts.
I understand being provocative to "bring 'em in." You've done a good job spurring good conversation and bringing the abstract home to each of us.
Persisting in calling every veteran and police officer (literally millions of Americans!) is inflammatory and insulting.
Silver:
Yeah, maybe you're right. Calling everybody a parasite for cashing their checks given to them in exchange for not working may be harsh.
But the public pension system, as it exists, is slowly crashing and burning the entire society. Am I the only one who sees this?
Have you been reading the papers and conservative blogs?
People have been talking about this for years. Welcome to the party.
Now that the GOP has made big gains at the state and national level, we'll see if anyone wants to get past the talking and actually start doing.
It's going to take everyone's ox getting gored and an equal sharing of the pain. It requires a leader people trust, and I just don't see that person out there yet. We'll see.
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